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— | no_refunds [2019/04/24 15:15] (current) – [Refunds Refused] Carlos Pedraza | ||
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+ | <WRAP box> | ||
+ | {{:: | ||
+ | <wrap lo> | ||
+ | </ | ||
+ | {{TOC}} | ||
+ | < | ||
+ | // | ||
+ | </ | ||
+ | ====== Kickstarter Deletes Axanar Spam, Peters Suspends Refunds ====== | ||
+ | |||
+ | **//Also: Peters Continues Attack on AxaMonitor, Props Up Surrogate' | ||
+ | |||
+ | <wrap lo>**By [[user> | ||
+ | |||
+ | <wrap em> | ||
+ | |||
+ | [{{ :: | ||
+ | |||
+ | ===== Spamming Kickstarter ===== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Peters had taken to spamming his Kickstarter’s comment section with dozens of repeated posts, pushing his backers’ questions and criticism down the screen, effectively silencing critics by making their comments difficult to see by any casual visitor to the page. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Kickstarter deleted his spam after complaints from backers like Eric Berry, who told Kickstarter: | ||
+ | |||
+ | > The creator [Peters] is currently engaged in a lawsuit with CBS/ | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== Forced Refunds Silence Critics ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Peters forcibly refunded three of his most ardent critics, telling them: | ||
+ | |||
+ | > I have refunded the three of you. Now here is the deal: I am going to refund the other 3 of your little group of malcontents and some others who want their money back. But if any of you post about these refunds or go tell [**AxaMonitor** editor] Carlos Pedraza, or whoever, the refunds will stop. If you want to be assholes and try and embarrass me and Axanar I will make it very clear that you three ruined it for everyone.(({{ :: | ||
+ | |||
+ | [{{ :: | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== Blaming Backers ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | One Kickstarter backer asked Peters’ how far he was willing to go to silence critics: | ||
+ | |||
+ | > Are you going to give all of us unasked for refunds to keep us from posting here? Why do you keep breaking the spamming rules? Why do you not want people asking questions or discussing the project with each other? | ||
+ | |||
+ | Peters followed through on his threat to Berry, going on to post multiple times who was to blame for him no longer offering refunds: | ||
+ | |||
+ | > Let me be clear, I tried to be nice, I tried to accomodate people who seem to have nothing better to spew lies and hate and bullshit. But they proved incapable of acting like adults. Eric Berry, Armsman and Glen Hine, like Sandy Greenberg before them, have proven that I cannot give refunds. We tried and you ruined it. Case closed.(([[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ===== Mollifying Donors ===== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Weeks before, despite adamant public refusals to grant refunds to donors disillusioned by delays in perks delivery and // | ||
+ | |||
+ | In early October 2016, Peters tried to address [[kickstarter_update|growing dissatisfaction]] by donors in the production' | ||
+ | * Announcing shipment of [[new_ares_digital|perks delayed]] as long as two years were finally beginning. | ||
+ | * Pointing uneasy donors to the rosier prospects posted on the Fan Film Factor blog about the pending [[copyright infringement]] [[lawsuit]] Axanar faces from [[CBS]] and [[paramount_pictures|Paramount]]. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== Refunds Refused ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Some donors weren’t buying it: "Send me my refund. Thanks," | ||
+ | |||
+ | <WRAP right round box 320px> //**__« AxaMonitor is run by a cyber stalker who has never said one good thing about Axanar. »__ **// — //Alec Peters, Axanar producer// </ | ||
+ | |||
+ | Peters instead told his Kickstarter donors: | ||
+ | |||
+ | > I am sorry, but since we are still working on this project, there are no refunds. As to this stupid nonsense that we have made a [[: | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | ==== Myths. Busted. ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Peters gave readers a link to a March post on the Axanar blog supposedly debunking myths about Axanar. | ||
+ | |||
+ | <WRAP round todo> | ||
+ | < | ||
+ | //**__True or False? | ||
+ | </ | ||
+ | |||
+ | <wrap em> | ||
+ | |||
+ | [{{ : | ||
+ | |||
+ | <wrap em> | ||
+ | * Is not trying to make money (it's a for-profit corporation). | ||
+ | * Did not build a commercial studio using donor money that it planned to rent to other productions (it has [[industry_studios|opened for business]]). | ||
+ | * Was the subject of a lawsuit that was about money (CBS and Paramount explicitly condemned Axanar as a [[compel_discovery# | ||
+ | </ | ||
+ | |||
+ | ===== Refunds Offered ===== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Despite the official line that he would issue no refunds, Peters had in fact offered or given refunds to complaining donors, hoping they would end their public criticism of him. Donor Tom Ryan told Peters: | ||
+ | |||
+ | <WRAP right round box 320px> | ||
+ | //**__« By accepting a refund you agree to not disclose said refund nor discuss Axanar in any media, including Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. »__**// — //Axanar Non-Disclosure Agreement// | ||
+ | </ | ||
+ | |||
+ | > Your attacks on the people who paid for your [[annual_report# | ||
+ | |||
+ | In response, Peters emailed Ryan with an offer: | ||
+ | |||
+ | > For your information, | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== Non-Disclosure Agreement ==== | ||
+ | |||
+ | [{{ :: | ||
+ | |||
+ | Peters emailed the legal agreement to Ryan, saying: | ||
+ | |||
+ | > Please sign the attached document and scan it and return it along with your PayPal address and we will refund your money. Unfortunately because of one donor who felt that even after being refunded his money he could slander Axanar, we are required by our attorneys to have this non-disclosure and non-disparagement agreement signed before giving a refund.((Alec Peters email to Thomas Ryan, 10/6/16.)) | ||
+ | |||
+ | The form Peters wanted Ryan to sign, " | ||
+ | |||
+ | > By accepting a refund for your donation, you agree to not disclose said refund nor discuss Axanar in any media, including but not limited to social media such as Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. … \\ \\ Any disclosure by you … regarding Axanar or this refund will cause irreparable harm to Axanar Productions Inc, and shall entitle [Axanar] to damages in the amount of $5,000 per occurrence.((Axanar Productions, | ||
+ | |||
+ | [{{ :: | ||
+ | |||
+ | Ryan was not moved: | ||
+ | |||
+ | > Not signing shit. If you still refuse to give me my money after [I refused] to sign this we will see how that goes with your backers.((Thomas Ryan email to Alec Peters, 10/6/16.)) | ||
+ | |||
+ | Peters gave it one more try: | ||
+ | |||
+ | > I am being very nice and offering you a refund when we are under no obligation to from Kickstarter. | ||
+ | |||
+ | {{page> | ||
+ | |||
+ | === Forced Silence === | ||
+ | |||
+ | However, facing mounting criticism on his Kickstarter' | ||
+ | |||
+ | > As [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | [{{ :: | ||
+ | |||
+ | On October 20, 2016, donor Jason Kovalik received a refund he did not request after exchanging public comments with Peters regarding a third party [[propworx-email|spamming Axanar' | ||
+ | |||
+ | > So this [refund] happened. … Please note, I did not sign anything NDA or what not. This was done, I suspect, because I was challenging Alec in the comments of the Kickstarter about his claims that Axanar didn't [[propworx-email|spam their donor list]] for Propworx, compared to Mike Bawden' | ||
+ | ===== Shifting Donation Amounts ===== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Similarly, the discussion on the Kickstarter comments section included Peters' | ||
+ | |||
+ | > For the record, no one gave anyone' | ||
+ | |||
+ | <WRAP round todo> | ||
+ | < | ||
+ | //**__True or False? | ||
+ | </ | ||
+ | |||
+ | <wrap em> | ||
+ | |||
+ | <wrap em> | ||
+ | |||
+ | > Alec is surely terrified of people telling the truth about Axanar, and especially under oath and armed with documentation to support it, so that makes it a good thing. The truth, whatever that might be, will be known and if it's submitted in a deposition then it has a good chance of becoming public through the official record. Alec won't be able to call people liars once they' | ||
+ | |||
+ | <wrap em> | ||
+ | |||
+ | [{{ :: | ||
+ | |||
+ | <wrap em> | ||
+ | |||
+ | > My company Propworx donated the entire profit from yesterday' | ||
+ | |||
+ | <wrap em> | ||
+ | |||
+ | > I’ve briefed everyone involved in this incident as to what was done wrong, the possible ramifications of violating the CAN-SPAM rules and established that any further use of the Axanar Donors list for email communication needs to be discussed with everyone on the team. I’ve been given assurances that what happened was a mistake and won’t happen again.((Mike Bawden email to AxaMonitor editor Carlos Pedraza, 9/12/16.)) | ||
+ | |||
+ | <wrap em> | ||
+ | |||
+ | Peters had made a passing statement on a Facebook post about "a portion of the proceeds" | ||
+ | </ | ||
+ | ===== ' | ||
+ | |||
+ | Meanwhile, as more Kickstarter backers took issue with Peters' | ||
+ | |||
+ | > AxaMonitor is run by a cyber stalker who has never said one good thing about Axanar. Only a moron would think it is unbiased. Fan Film Factor is the ONLY unbiased source and the only one that has actual lawyers consulting, not the armchair lawyer crap [AxaMonitor] publishes.(([[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | ---- | ||
+ | **Keywords** {{tag> |